Interview: Dr. Karen Page Gustafson

Today's guest is Dr. Karen Page Gustafson, PhD.  Karen plays bass and sings for The KGB Band, is a clinical psychologist, and a staff member for G.R.R.R (Girls' Rock & Roll Retreat).

Hi, Karen!  Thanks so much for taking the time to share with Bass-ically Speaking readers today.  As a musician,  a woman, and a psychologist, your insights are unique.  I feel confident my readers will enjoy hearing from you as much as I have.

(Side note from Carol:  I'll be adding a few comments along the way.  Natch!)

Bass-ically Speaking:  Let's start with the KGB Band.  Tell us a little about the band and its members.  How did it come together and what type of music do you play?

 

Karen:  My husband had played guitar for 20 years... He then decided to assemble a band. After nominating his boss to play drums he recruited another guitar player and tapped me for bass. I had just finished up my psychology doctorate and was ready to do something fun. We bumbled along for several months waiting for a singer to find time to join us when it dawned on me that I could at least be the vocal “place holder” for the band. I was terribly shy so I sang softly. A year later I was diagnosed with breast cancer and it changed my life. First, in a bad and very scary way I realized I was mortal. Second, in a good way, it forced me to realize that I had to do what was in my heart today – not tomorrow. I had wanted to be a singer all my life, and this was just the kick in the behind I needed.

 

Today we have a five-piece band (2 guitars, bass & lead vocals, keys & vocals, and drums) that expands to seven (congas and another vocalist). We play blues, classic rock, and a few country tunes.

(Carol's Comment:  I love the name KGB Band!  I dunno about playing in a band with my husband, though.  It'd be mighty hard not to flirt with him on stage!) 

"I was diagnosed with breast cancer and it changed my life. ... I realized I was mortal...it forced me to realize that I had to do what was in my heart today – not tomorrow."

Bass-ically Speaking:  You were also involved in an interesting project, Girls Rock & Roll Retreat (G.R.R.R.)  How did that project get started, what was your roll, and what did it do for the girls involved?

 

Karen:  I was the Treasurer for Women In Music Minnesota (WIMMN), a 501c3 charitable organization focused on helping women of all ages develop their musicianship. One of our members was interested in starting a rock camp for just girls, a place where girls could thrive without worrying about questions like, “Are my feet too big? Am I wearing the right outfit? Will that boy think I’m a dork?” So, in 2007 we created the first girls-only rock camp in Minnesota. It was a huge success. As the Camp Director I was responsible for all of the administrative aspects of the camp (registration, logistics, upset parents, etc.). In 2008 WIMMN ran two weeks of girls rock camp and is planning on a repeat performance for next year. I am now “mom” to one of the girls I met at camp. She is 16 years old and a talented, let me say very talented, songwriter, singer, keyboard, and guitar player. And, she just informed me she plays bass as well.

(Carol's Comment:  Love it!  I just love it!  Can I sign my daughter up next summer?  Better yet - Please start a G.R.R.R. in Texas!)

 

"[P]laying with nurturing women was a safe way to grow my chops. I never felt that I was being judged by anything other than my abilities. No one asked me to show cleavage or legs."

Bass-ically Speaking:  Karen, you've played bass in some all-female groups.  But you've also played with a number of mixed-gender groups.  In my opinion, they each have specific, gender-related challenges for women.  How do you compare the two? Are there any unique issues that arise from playing in a band with your own husband?

 

Karen:  First I’ll address the all female group. Playing in the WIMMN jam band was a real treat because it was a very nurturing environment where I was, on occasion, thrown into the fire and not chastised when I hit wrong notes. When I played with a male jam band I was told to “sing it up a fourth” because I shouldn’t sing in a man’s key. Excuse me? I’m an alto! Thus playing with nurturing women was a safe way to grow my chops. I never felt that I was being judged by anything other than my abilities. No one asked me to show cleavage or legs. Playing with my husband is even better. He has been SO encouraging and he has believed in me so much that I took risks on tunes I never though I could have pulled off.

(Carol's Comment:  I get the legs and cleavage thing, too.  One band I was in wanted to put me and the two back-up singers in plaid mini-skirts and fishnet stockings for gigs.  Excuse me?!?!?!)

 
"It took me too many years to find my voice."

Bass-ically Speaking:  Your parents were both accomplished musicians.  How did the music they exposed you to as a child impact your own preferences?  What were some of the most effective ways they encouraged and supported your own musical goals?

 

Karen:  Every weekend we would drive 88 miles to my grandparent’s home in Hayfield, MN. I had two sisters with great voices. My mom and dad would lead us in song and four-part harmonies en route to Hayfield. I often said, “I don’t know the words” because I was too shy to sing. It took me too many years to find my voice.

 

My mom played piano and I sat attentively on the bench next to her wishing she would play more. My dad wrote music, played guitar, was a classically trained baritone. Before Glenn Miller was a household name, my father sang with his band in a quartet. Later on, my dad sang in a trio in our living room every Wednesday night. I sat in my PJs mesmerized by the harmonies of his voice blended with two women vocalists. Although this admission may come back to haunt me, I attended church just to hear my dad sing. He had a way of rocking and rolling that was soulful and rich and it was hard to believe he was just a White boy from Peterson MN.

 

Bass-ically Speaking:  In addition to that of musician, you also wear another hat; you're a psychologist. Which came first, the musician or the shrink?  Does one roll impact the other in any way?

 

Karen:  Before the musician, and before the shrink, there was a businesswoman . . .  I went back to school and studied myself into a much lower paying career; I got my doctorate in psychology.

 

Once my doctorate was done I enlisted my nephew as my bass teacher (he is an accomplished bassist, composer, and producer) and got started redefining myself as a musician. My role as a musician definitely impacts my role as a psychologist . . .  I can coach them in the pros and cons of following their hearts. My role as a psychologist helps me to understand how to best influence and negotiate for gigs and with fellow band mates.

"Music is powerful, and research suggests that singing raises endorphins, our bodies natural opiates."

Bass-ically Speaking;  I see music as a very personal expression of artists' personae, often times speaking to deep-seated feelings, positive and negative.  As both a musician and a psychologist you bring a unique perspective to music's impact on the human psyche.   What are your thoughts on music as a therapy tool both for the artist and the listener?   

 

Karen:  Goodness, this is a deep question, but here goes . . . For me, certain songs will always ignite the mesolimbic pathway in my brain (also known as the pleasure pathway) much like an intoxicating drug. Music is powerful, and research suggests that singing raises endorphins, our bodies natural opiates. Thus it is no wonder we feel good when we sing. We don’t need to sing good, we just need to sing!

 

There is also a large body of literature and practical findings in music therapy, especially for people in hospice. Live music at one’s deathbed can help the dying person to let go. Trained music therapists match their cadence to the breath rate of the dying person. Although recorded music can’t do this, it can come close. The last sense that we experience is sound. In my view I can imagine no better escort into the “beyond” than Jaco’s “Portait of Tracy,” Debussy’s “Prelude a l’apres-midi d’un faune,” or Jerome Kern’s, “Till the Clouds Roll By.”

(Carol's Comment:  I want "Amazing Grace" playing when I go.  Just find me a version that's rocked up a bit, okay?)

"Music and videos that objectify women send the wrong message and are harmful to our society. It is just as easy and socially profound to project positive images."

 

Bass-ically Speaking:  When looking at/listening to the music of today's young people, what overall impression do you get about their perspective on today's culture?  How do you advise parents to interpret what is going on with their kids based upon their children's musical choices?  Are there any music-related warning flags parents should look for in their kids' preferences?

 

Karen: In my opinion, any reference to killing, or bitches, or ho’s, or booty calls serves no constructive purpose and is a big fat red flag . . .  As a parent, which I am not, I would be VERY concerned about dark lyrics that glamorize violence, suicide, and the one up-one down message. Avril Lavigne projects angst but not death.

(Carol's Comment:  As a parent and child/adolescent psychiatric nurse, I emphatically concur!)

It was a party for a pig. . . And, she paid us well!

Bass-ically Speaking:  Just for fun, what's the craziest gig you ever played?

 

Karen:  It was a party for a pig. No kidding. Wendy was a pink, rotund pig that lived in a city that did not allow “farm animals.” We played off the porch at a backyard party where Wendy roamed freely. We all fell in love with Wendy and felt honored to play at her party. Yes, there were your token people present, but it was really all about Wendy. And, she paid us well!

(Carol's Comment:  Oink, dude!  I wanna play a Pig Gig!)

Bass-ically Speaking:  Thanks again, Karen!  I can't tell you how this has inspired me and strengthened my own resolve as a woman, a mom and a musician!  You rock!

To my readers: Be sure to leave a comment for Karen to enter a drawing for a KGB Band t-shirt!  I'll draw and announce the winner (and give a little linkage) in this Saturday's Spotlight! 

Meanwhile, Rock On!

Comments

[Susan Helene Gottfried]

Carol, Karen, this was a fabulous interview. Thanks to both of you. I totally agree about the images set forth in music, but you've also given me much to think about. Thanks.

(and yes, I'd wear that t-shirt with pride!)

[Clark]

I was surprised to read that Karen's father is from Peterson, MD. He is likely to be either a Swiggum, an Agrimson or a Boyum, or maybe all three, which would make him a relative of mine.

[Coark]

They should have a way to edit comments. I'm always posting an oops.

Peterson MN of course.

Clark in MD

[Jan]

Great interview! I really liked the discussion on gender relations in bands, since I've also had experience in both all-female and mixed gender bands. One side note though: I didn't have quite the positive experience Karen has had playing with a spouse. My ex was a keyboard player, and played with me in my first ever band. I must say, my musical freedom of expression and my confidence in my abilities has exploded since the divorce! But, then, my band woes probably were just a reflection of the condition of our relationship at the time.

[Ayers29Amanda]

That's good that people are able to get the home loans and this opens new chances.