The First Lady of Bass in a Man's World
Dear Readers, I have not forgotten about our little contest. Carol Kaye graciously sent an autographed photo to go along with that CD! And the winner is Scott from My Thermos! Congrats, man! You get to pick: Guitars 1965/Carol Kaye & the Hit Men (She's on guitar for that one.) OR Joe Pass Better Days featuring Carol Kaye on bass. Eenie, meenie, miney, moe....
Okay! Time to rock!
She Lives: Women's Lib was barely a speck on the distant horizon when your studio career really began to gain traction. Most people probably don't think about it but, as a female musician and a female bassist you punched through some pretty solid glass ceilings back then. What were those days like for you in terms of challenges and successes?
Carol Kaye: It was very easy actually from what I remember. I had no bad habits, and needed the work. I was totally accepted as "one of the guys" and that was good enough for me. Actually many men back then knew that women could play (as described in Quincy Jones' book "Q"), some didn't like to work with you but I had the upper hand, being an expert on that elec. bass which most hit recordings needed at that early time in the 1960s.....sure I walked around with my nose in the air a few times, after all I gave up a thriving jazz career to go play rock and roll in the studios.....but soon I was very grateful for a way to take care of my kids and have the friendliness and love of my fellow musician peer-group too after my 2nd divorce (bad choices of husbands!).....
"I had the upper hand, being an expert on that elec. bass which most hit recordings needed at that early time in the 1960s..."
All I had to do was "play" and have a good quick wit of good sense of humor and the guys instantly liked me and respected me as "one of their own"....it's easier to do if all women have their acts together and do not complain "about the men"...but rather be able to play as good as, or better than they do, and that takes care of 99% of the problems. The rest is personality, professionalism and good wit.
For any trouble maker, you just feed it back to them what they're saying and learn how to respond so the rest of the guys laugh at *them*, not at you. Sometimes yes, you have to swear, it goes with the territory, tho' I'm not proud of that. You never have to "like the guys" or be overly friendly at all to command respect but be totally PROFESSIONAL, nice, congenial, but not too "friendly", and have a raucous sense of humor, yet keep that wall up between you and them. Sure it gets a little lonely sometimes, it's hard to trust a lot of people and being the only woman (sometimes I was the only white, but that in a way was wonderful, I was treated WELL!) is lonely. But you find good private friends, you only need a few. Your family sure eats up the rest of your time if you're raising kids like I did (3 children, thank God for the live-in help I had then).
I had very little trouble at all, whether live jazz or in the studio work...I think it's sometimes tougher these days because so few men are "good musicians" and so they automatically think a "woman can't play" ("worse" than they are) which is NOT true from what I see. There's many fine women musicians out there now, don't let any "man" get you down at all, shine them on, they don't know what they're talking about. [B]ut also always check yourself to make sure their complaints are just talk...I had one drummer tell me "Carol you're rushing" and I instantly said "no I'm not" but I listened to the play-back and sure enough I WAS rushing! So I went home to practice with the metronome beating on 2 and 4 to get my real time-groove natural core for the elec. bass (I had for guitar but elec. bass is a different animal).
...[B]e totally PROFESSIONAL, nice, congenial, but not too "friendly", and have a raucous sens
e of humor...
Men can be so ignorant and not know the great history of the women musicians who worked with the men since 1910! So don't let them get to you, but also check to make sure you're "OK" (and they're not).
We women are the first to say self-criticism things to ourselves. Stop that! Just practice and make sure you know learning something is a "project", it's not your identity and you'll be alright....[D]on't be afraid to sit in and jam with men. Just don't fraternize with them and don't marry drummers! Sorry, just kidding....so easy for bass players to fall in love with good drummers. Drummers are OK, just that I had a bad marriage with one, and so did Nancy Wilson and other singers - just be careful of marrying musicians - sometimes that union works, sometimes it doesn't.
"Out here in California, the men LOVE women who can really play and love to be in the audience digging them too."
Women are smart, they'll find a way around some baddie in the band...but overall, I think it's all worse these days tho' women are finally claiming their part of musical history once again and have more opportunities than ever. Out here in California, the men LOVE women who can really play and love to be in the audience digging them too. I do think the rock era stopped the forward motion of women musicians in the 1960s ...[B]ecause women jazz musicians sure didn't want to play "less" than what they were capable of and back then, most women played until they "got married"; having that ring and Mrs. in front of your name was more important than a career sometimes.
Also, imo, men in rock and roll sometimes aren't as nice (overall) as jazz musicians I find, thanks to drug-uses, drinking, or whatever. The jazz world, or just plain pop (standards plus funk and rock and blues) are better genres for women to play in and be happy with, plus women have the smarts and the [wherewithal] to learn the kind of music they need to get those gigs too....
Links:
NPR's Bob Edwards' interview with Carol Kaye
Related Past posts:
Interview Part One: Meet the First Lady of Bass
Electric Bass, Bass Guitar, Something Something...?
13 Clues: Guess My Guest (Carol Kaye)
Saturday Spotlight (excerpts from Pekka Rautionmaa's documentary, "The First Lady of Bass")
Photos courtesy of Carol Kaye (Top: 1973 studio session; bottom: 1959 guitar gig w/jazz orchestra)
